Jehovah witnesses, if only 144,000 spirit anointed person are born again then why is that..?

Question by John Noel: Jehovah witnesses, if only 144,000 spirit anointed person are born again then why is that..?
If only 144,000 spirit anointed people are “born again”, why does the Bible, in 1Jn 5:1, say that, “Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been BORN FROM GOD…”? What does the word “everyone” mean to you? Conversely, where in the Bible does it say that only 144,000 people will be “born again”? Similarly, if only 144,000 spirit anointed people are “born from God”, why does the Bible say that “EVERYONE who loves has been born from God” (1Jn 4:7)? Don’t all Christians love and believe that Jesus is the Christ? Again, what does the word “everyone” mean to you? Similarly, if only 144,000 spirit anointed people are “sealed with the holy spirit”, why does the Bible say in Eph 1:13, that after a Christian “believed”, he was “sealed with the promised holy spirit.” Shouldn’t this apply to all Christians since all Christians “believe” that Jesus is the Christ? In addition, Rom 8:14 says that, “ALL who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons.” Do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe they are led by God’s spirit? If so, then according top Rom 8:14, aren’t they also “God’s sons”?

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Answer by ℳᗄ̶Ð ƦЋξተσЯ!Ͻ
Do Christians all have some kind of weird, preggo-fetish or something?

Childbirth is gross. I’m trying to eat over here. Enough already.

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10 thoughts on “Jehovah witnesses, if only 144,000 spirit anointed person are born again then why is that..?”

  1. How many people are in heaven? Read starting (Rev. 7) at verse nine: “A GREAT MULTITUDE NO ONE COULD COUNT”. These people are NOT the 144,000 Jewish male virgins. The Bible clearly states in verses 14&15-“These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.” The ‘throne of God’ is in heaven and these people are ‘before’ the throne.

    Revelation 7:4-17 (New International Version)

    4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the TRIBES OF ISRAEL. 5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

    The Great Multitude in White Robes:
    9 After this I looked and there before me was a GREAT MULTITUDE NO ONE COULD COUNT, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” 11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: “Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!” 13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes–who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

  2. Only a little flock of 144,000 go to heaven and rule with ChristLuke 12:32; Rev. 14:1, 3; 1 Cor. 15:40-53; Rev. 5:9, 10
    The 144,000 are born again as spiritual sons of God1 Pet. 1:23; John 3:3; Rev. 7:3, 4

  3. The apostle John’s statement about “everyone” believing in Jesus as being born from God. (1 John 5:1) John was writing to fellow believers of the first century C.E., all of whom were of the heavenly “firstfruits” class.
    And an examination of the context indicates that John did not mean that every individual throughout history that would believe in Jesus would be born again and go to heaven.
    His point was that no one could be born again unless he believed in Jesus Christ.

    This does not mean that persons with earthly hopes do not have holy spirit. Faithful servants of God in pre-Christian times, though not begotten as spiritual sons of God with heavenly hopes, had God’s spirit. (Judg. 6:34; 11:29; 14:6; 2 Sam. 23:2; 2 Tim. 3:16)
    John the Baptist, for example, was “filled with holy spirit”; yet he did not go to heaven, for Jesus said of him: “A lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.”—Matt. 11:11.

    Likewise today all who wish to please God seek the direction of his holy spirit in their lives. They endeavor to “put on the new personality,” displaying “the fruitage of the spirit,” including love, kindness, mildness and self-control. (Eph. 4:24; Gal. 5:22) But they do not have to be “born again” to do this.

    It is interesting, too, that the “sheep” that would be separated from the “goats” were not to appear until “the Son of man arrives in his glory,” during the invisible “presence” of Christ at the “conclusion of the system of things.” (Matt. 25:31-33; 24:3)
    Similarly, the “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9-17 “come out of the great tribulation,” at the end of the present system of things.—Rev. 7:14; Matt. 24:21, 22.

  4. Greetings,

    First, this letter was addressed to Christians in the first century who were all “born again” and anointed to be kings. None were of the “other sheep” with the earthly hope. Therefore, in the context of which this letter was written, all believers were “born of God.”

    However, we must be aware of different definitions of what it means to be “born again.” Most people have been taught that being “born again” simply means taking on a new (Christian) life or accepting Jesus as our savior. So, according to *that* definition Witnesses could answer “Yes, all Witnesses are born again,” since we must accept Christ as our Lord and Savior.

    However, Witnesses are very careful to use Scriptural terms in their proper sense, so we would also mention that the Scriptural meaning is different than what most people have been taught. In Scripture the term “born again” is *only* applied to those who have been “adopted” as sons of God and heirs with Christ for a resurrection to the heavens. They are said to be “God’s children” in a *special* sense because of this new and special “adoption” to a heavenly life (1Pt.1:3- 4,18-19, 23; Rm.8:13-17; Heb.12:23). These are “born again” because their future is life in the heavenly realm rather than God’s original earthly purpose for humankind. This was a new arrangement for humans put in effect only after Christ came to earth. (Jn.1:9-13; Jas. 1:17-18; 2Cor.5:17).

    Those who have an earthly hope have no need for a “rebirth” to heavenly life. They are simply God’s children in the same way Adam, Abraham and other pre-Christian humans were (Rm.8:19-22). They are dedicated to doing God’s will *for them*– which is to be faithful and fulfill God’s original purpose for the earth (Gen.1:28; 2:15; Ps.37:29; Rev.21:3,4).

    This is confirmed throughout the Bible. At Mt. 5:5 Christ adopted the words of Ps.37:10,11,29 to show that the future would be a peaceful earth as God originally decreed. At Mt 19:28 Jesus spoke of a “regeneration” (PALINGENESIA). It is God’s stated purpose “to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth” (Eph.1:10).

    Also God’s will would ”be done on Earth as it is in heaven” shows His stated purpose for righteous ones is to live for “eternity on earth” (Ps.37:29; Mt.5:5; 6:10). And God would reside with MANKIND forever (Rev.21:3).

    Similarly we have the contrast in Rom. 8:19-22 between the”son’s of God” who are revealed and the “creation” who also are “children of God.” Both groups will gain freedom from sin (1Jn.3:2; 1Cor.15:48-49; Phil.3:20-21).

    So the belief in two groups, one with a heavenly future and one with a future on paradise earth is clearly taught in many scriptures. Most religions just ignore the explicit statements by Jesus and the Scriptures which show that most humans will enjoy everlasting life on earth (Mt.5:5; 6:10; Ps.37,9,10,29; Isa.66:19-24; 24:1-6; Rev.21:3,4; cf. Jn.3:13; Acts 2:34).

    While John was addressing only Christians with the heavenly hope, today all Christians can say that they are “born of God” in a general sense. Those with the earthly hope just are not “born of God” in the same sense that the 144,000 are. By the same token those who are of the 144,000 are not “born of God” in exactly the same sense that Christ is (cf. 1Jn. 5:1; 5:18).

    Similarly, there are different references and nuances for the terms “sons of God.” Jesus was a “son of God” yet so were the angels. Was Jesus a son of God in *exactly* the same sense as the angels? No, Jesus is the only one who is called God’s “only-begotten” and “first-born.” While the term “son” indicates that Jesus received his life from the “father,” Christ is a “son of God” on a level far different from the angels or humans.

    Jesus said God was his “father” yet God is said to be the “father” of humans. Was God “father” to humans in *exactly* the same sense as he was to Christ? No, again Jehovah is “father” to Christ in a greater sense.

    Witnesses understand the different nuances between being “born again” and being “born of God.” So, unlike other religious writers who do not completely understand the Bible, our literature properly makes a differentiation when the Scriptures are using terms in technical ways and general statements.

    Unlike other religions, we accept the strong Scriptural evidence of two groups of Christians both who gain salvation, one spoken of as a limited number who would be “born again” as kings in heaven and then a great multitude of subjects who “inherit the earth.” Most religions ignore the explicit statements by Jesus and the Scriptures which show that most humans will enjoy everlasting life on earth (Mt.5:5; 6:10; Ps.37,9,10,29; Isa.66:19-24; 24:1-6; Rev.21:3,4; cf. Jn.3:13; Ac 2:34).



  5. The 144,000 mentioned in (Rev 7:4 ) are NOT anointed JWs. Lets read it and see who they are.

    v:4 “..and there were sealed an hundred forty and four thousand of ALL the TRIBES of the children of ISRAEL”

    verses 5 -8 “Of the tribes of Juda, Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nepthalim, Manasses, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph and Benjamin.

    So where does it mention a tribe from the Watchtower society ?

    Why don’t the JWs accept what the scriptures say about the 144,000 instead of what their organization says ?

    Also ( 1John 5:13 ) says “These things have I written unto you…that ye may know that ye have ETERNAL LIFE”

    Do the JWs really believe the apostle John wrote this scripture for 1st century christians only ?

    Paul told Timothy in (2Tim 3:15 -16 ) “thou has known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto SALVATION through faith which is in CHRIST JESUS”

    “ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is PROFITABLE for DOCTRINE”

    The watchtower society are deceiving there followers by teaching that 1John 5:1 and other scriptures are not applicable today because they don’t want their people reading them instead of there magazines.

    Paul declares the gospel of our salvation in (1Cor 15:1-4 ) “Christ died for OUR sins” — this means everyone including the JWs.

    Our Lord said in (John 3:3 ) “Except a MAN be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God”

    Man is referred to EVERY human being not SOME! — every lost sinner ( Rom 3:23 ) must believe in their heart that Jesus died for their sins on the cross to inherit eternal life and make him their Saviour ( Rom 10:9-10, 1Cor 1:18 and Tit 1:4 )

  6. Your question is based on the fallacious assumption that every use of the word “born” in the Christian Greek scriptures refers to being “born again” with the heavenly hope.

    The context makes it clear that the apostle John was speaking about persons being born as sons of God in the sense of undergoing, with God’s help, a transformation in their way of life so that they immitate his ways. God is love and so those who turn to showing genuine love are in a sense born from God as a son of God. This is not referring strictly to being born again as spirit sons of God with the heavenly hope.

    You only need to carefully study John 8:41-47 to see how both Jesus and the hypocritical religious leaders used the term “Father” to refer to one who follows God’s example and the Devil’s example, to understand the sense in which the apostle wrote 1John 5:1.

    In the sense of 1John 5:1 and John 8:41,42,47 all true Christians — regardless of their hope — are sons of God by virtue of obeying him and immitating his example. (Matthew 5:44,45,48; Ephesians 5:1) This is not to be confused with being born again or adopted as spirit sons of God with the heavenly hope. You have conveniently morphed the two into one to create your strawman argument.

    Ephesians 1:13 merely reports that anointed Christians were sealed with holy spirit after they believed. This is not a statement that all who believe will be sealed with holy spirit.

    Yes Romans 8:14 says that all who are led by God’s spirit are God’s sons. Again, in the sense of obeying God and immitating his ways. Following the leads of holy spirit certainly results in a person obeying God and immitating his example. In fact this is what the preceding verses in Romans 8 were about — rejecting the leading of the flesh in preference to following the leadings of the spirit. Then Romans 8:15 shifts a bit to present the line of argument that since anointed Christians are also sons in a special sense (being adopted or born again as spiritual sons of God), they especially have reason to behave as sons of God (in the more general sense, as all true worshippers) by obeying the leadings of holy spirit instead of the leadings of the flesh.

  7. This belief regarding the 144000 has it’s days counted.

    Just like the generation belief, it will have to be reformed as time advances. The governing body is simply delaying this as long as possible just like they did with the generation debacle.

    As the years advance though, the idea that there are still thousands of these “annointed” on earth alive, will become usustainable.

    In fact it already is… If we go by the belief that prior to 1935, all true christians were annointed as the Watchtower teaches, this number has logically been reached for many years now.

    Even so, the Watchtower continues to hold on to this idea, for now that is….. Soon, it will become apparent that the “144000 bucket” as long been filled and is spilling over, and obviously “new light” will come from Bethel on this.

  8. That is not what the Bible teaches…
    “only the 144,000 are born again” that is your reasoning.
    See (read) the account of Jesus’ conversation with Nicodemus.

  9. One other side point that my friends may not have added to the list.

    Paul speaks of the creation groaning and waiting for the revealing of the sons of God. Since this sets the sons of God apart from the creation, we see that when this revealing is finished, the creation will become the children of God. Thus we will have a freedom only the family members of Jehovah God can receive. That is why in Revelation 20, the 144000 are described as having a different resurrection from the rest, which says that they will be alive at the end, when they are written in the book of life. That will complete the process of the return of mankind back as the children of God.

    As for your statement, “Don’t all Christians love and believe that Jesus is the Christ?” No they don’t. Proof of that is at Matthew 7:21-23 when Jesus tells those that claim to be his followers, to get away from me. He says they are workers of lawlessness. Thus making claims and not living up to the standard Christ sets, is not only worthless, but insulting to Christ, because while they claim to follow him, they practice the most vile things.

  10. The first verse to investigate is John 10:16. Ex-JW, David Reed comments:
    They contrast the “other sheep” with the “little flock” mentioned at Luke 12:32 …. The “little flock,” Witnesses say, are 144,000 spirit anointed believers who make up the body of Christ and will go to heaven, while the “other sheep” include all other believers – those who will receive everlasting life on earth …. Besides the vast majority of JW’s, the Watchtower Society also throws all pre-Christian believers into the other sheep class with an earthly hope. Thus, Witnesses believe that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets, and so on, do not go to heaven (Reed, pp.78,9).

    When interpreting any passage, it is important to understand its historical background. Jesus knew a major issue the apostolic Church would have to deal with would be the relationship of Jews and Gentiles within the Church (see Acts 10; 15).

    Next is Matthew 24:45-47. Reed comments on how the WT interprets this passage, “Instead of seeing it as an exhortation to each Christian to be a faithful and diligent “slave” for Christ, they believe that their organization represents the faithful and discreet slave, divinely appointed to dispense ‘spiritual food’ to the household of faith” (Reed, p. 58).

    This passage is at the end of the Olivet discourse. Here, Jesus is discussing God’s coming judgment. The preceding verses record Jesus’ warning to be ready at all times since no one knows the time of His coming (24:42). There is nothing in the passage to indicate Jesus is referring to an organization or class of people.

    The cited passages from The Revelation will now be studied. The seventh and fourteenth chapters of this book are the only places in the Bible where the number “144,000” is actually mentioned.

    In 7:1-4, the 144,000 are specifically said to be Israelites. 12,000 Israelites from each of the 12 tribes of Israel are sealed by God to be His servants.

    Now, some Christians do believe “Israel” in this passage should not be taken literally. Instead, they think it is to be taken metaphorically as referring to Christians (i.e. “spiritual Israel”). However, in this view, “144,000” is also taken figuratively. It indicates a complete but nonspecific number. 144,000 is the product of 12,000 times 12 and 12 is believed to be symbolic of completeness.

    However, the passage must be taken wholly literally or wholly figuratively. It is faulty interpretation to take 144,000 literally yet to spiritualize Israel into “anointed Christians” as the WT does. If 144,000 is taken literally then so must Israel. If the number is taken spiritually, then so should Israel.

    As for the “great crowd” – Revelation 19:1 specifically declares that they are in heaven! So how can this phrase refer to those who will live forever on earth?

    Finally, all the redeemed will “reign” in the sense of having our dominion over nature restored that was lost at the Fall (Gen 1:26f; 3:17-19; Rev 5:9f). We are all “priests” since we have direct access to God (1Pet 2:9f; Heb 4:14-16).

    In John 10:16, Jesus is preparing his disciples for this problem by declaring “there will be one flock.” So the sense of the passage is that Gentiles (the “other sheep”) must unite with the faithful Jews (the “little flock” of Luke 12:32) to form the ONE people of God.

    Conclusion-Nowhere in any of the passages evaluated has there been found any indication that they should be linked in the way the WT strings them together.

    Further, the New Testament teaches there is only ONE people of God. The idea of two distinct classes of Christians with two different destinies is simply not Biblical (see Mark 9:38-40; Rom 1:7; 12:4-8; Gal 3:7-9,26-29).

    Moreover, only one thing is needed to become a part of this ONE people of God – faith in Jesus Christ (John 6:28f). All genuine believers can look forward to spending eternity in loving fellowship with the Father and the Son (Rev 21:1-4; 22:1-5).

    If you have not placed your trust in Christ and in His death alone for your salvation, do so today! Faith in Christ guarantees forgiveness of sins, sealing by the Holy Spirit and placement into this ONE body of Christ (Eph 1:7-14; 1Cor 1:2; 12:13; 2Cor 6:1,2).

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